tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3002171964909690430.post8716352745220971630..comments2024-03-18T23:52:31.939-04:00Comments on The Invisible Visible Man: Why some people get angry with cyclists: and why it's time to do something about itInvisible Manhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15942359504874275065noreply@blogger.comBlogger54125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3002171964909690430.post-46776003419237895322017-02-09T09:12:53.593-05:002017-02-09T09:12:53.593-05:00That well known cyclist, Jeremy Clarkson once sugg...That well known cyclist, Jeremy Clarkson once suggested that road safety would be improved if the drivers air-bag was replaced with a rusty bayonet as it would make people drive much more carefully. Think he my have been onto something there!Dereknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3002171964909690430.post-28148692415397999482014-10-15T19:43:04.743-04:002014-10-15T19:43:04.743-04:00I thoroughly enjoyed your post, and the Guardian c...I thoroughly enjoyed your post, and the Guardian comment that led me to it. However, I think the Camberwell lady's naked aggression had almost as much to do with the general impatience, rudeness and frustration that seems to characterise the denizens of London (myself included, at times) as it does with the disdain some motorists show cyclists.<br /><br />For instance, in the five years I've lived here, I've been threatened to have my "f***ing Paki face" blown off by a (n ethnic minority) motorist when on my motorcycle, insulted by a taxi driver for having a Saltire on my car window, and told by a cyclist to learn to walk faster across a zebra crossing if I didn't want to get knocked down. More than anything else, I think this has to do with how so many Londoners aren't Londoners of their own volition.Sidnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3002171964909690430.post-89416677332060126692014-03-07T09:45:47.034-05:002014-03-07T09:45:47.034-05:00And the way to resolve this is to get children cyc...And the way to resolve this is to get children cycling (as they all do in Holland) and the way to do that is build proper infrastructure so children can get safely to either a school or a centre where they can learn. The take-up of off and on-road cycling training for years 5,6 and 7 which is on offer is very low as the children cannot get to the place of training to start with. I also advocate at least a session of cycling for anyone taking a driving test as there are now whole generations of young people who have never been on a bike let alone walk muchRockcyclisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04288358464630897534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3002171964909690430.post-38577077098000183202014-03-07T09:42:32.594-05:002014-03-07T09:42:32.594-05:00Anonymous and Amoeba - the point is that VED is a ...Anonymous and Amoeba - the point is that VED is a tax, part of which goes to maintaining the roads - and anybody who earns money enough to pay tax pays for the roads - and people who cycle disproportionately pay for damage which they do not cause. In fact it has been ridiculous that some cars are VED free - all cars cause damage to the roads and cause business damaging congestion. What is required is a Public Broadcasting advert which explains exactly what it is.Rockcyclisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04288358464630897534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3002171964909690430.post-91206474468773798632014-01-28T13:28:38.810-05:002014-01-28T13:28:38.810-05:00Dear Mr Durward,
I've been to Cambridge on a ...Dear Mr Durward,<br /><br />I've been to Cambridge on a number of occasions, although as I've moved since writing the post on which you commented to the United States, Cambridge Cambridgeshire is a bit of a long trip for me.<br /><br />It's disproportionately safe for pedestrians to be around cyclists - cyclists in the UK kill far fewer people than would be expected given their share of the traffic. I'm not aware that Cambridge in any way bucks that trend. I do know that around 6 per cent of incidents in the UK where a car hits a pedestrian happen when the pedestrian's on the pavement, so a high level of pavement cycling still poses far less danger to you than cars careering onto the pavement where you're walking.<br /><br />It's certainly inconsiderate to ride on the pavement where it's not allowed and I don't do it. But it's not a serious public safety issue - and in no way justifies the hostility towards cyclists that many of us experience.<br /><br />All the best,<br /><br />Invisible.Invisible Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15942359504874275065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3002171964909690430.post-72069004341997913922014-01-27T16:11:52.767-05:002014-01-27T16:11:52.767-05:00Hi Invisible Man,
I agree with you that motorists...Hi Invisible Man,<br /><br />I agree with you that motorists can be aggressive towards cyclists. I have been knocked off my bicycle a couple of times in Cambridge and have had a particularly aggressive coach driver shout at me for cycling as close to the pavement as I could. I have been teaching my 8 year old daughter the 'rules of the road' for the last 10 months and I have to say that there is a significant minority of cyclists in Cambridge who have complete disregard for pedestrians. I have not noticed this in any other British cities. By the way I have two bikes and I will choose cycling over walking in this town as when you are a pedestrian in generally involves having to avoid cyclists on the pavement. Please come and see for yourself if you don't believe me. I have actually got to the point where I am going to start carrying a video camera with an infra red light around to record the number idiots on bicycles in Cambridge. I like that fact that sociologists have studied the behaviour of the minority of cyclists and that they are not aware that it is illegal to cycle of the pavement, cycle the wrong way up a one way street, cycle in the dark without lights - come on, give me a break please. It is down to laziness, impatience and lack of respect for other people. I agree that a cyclist is unlikely to kill a pedestrian, although I do have a friend who suffered head injuries after being knocked down by a cyclist, but the roads here in Cambridge are not dangerous, there are plenty of cycle lanes on many of the roads and mixed cycle/pedestrian paths. It is about having respect for pedestrians or even motorists and other cyclists. Unfortunately in society at the moment a lot of people have learnt that they can take advantage of situations by doing something illegal. There seems to be a lack of courtesy and impatience, and a need for instant gratification, which unfortunately permeates into all sections of society.Jonathan Durwardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02177028065690661218noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3002171964909690430.post-28463539368604847102013-06-03T08:00:35.531-04:002013-06-03T08:00:35.531-04:00Interesting blog, I came here from your post over ...Interesting blog, I came here from your post over on The Guardian website here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/bike-blog/2013/may/21/twitter-hit-and-run-boast-road-tax#comment-23761737<br /><br />In any case, I agreewith pn's post.<br /><br />I also find it interesting to consider why it is that some motorists become so disproportionately angry at cyclists. My main form of transport is bike, I cycle most days to and from work (a short, 15 minute cycle through the centre of Bristol). I also drive 3 or 4 times a week for the weekly shop and to meetings that are a bit further afield.<br /><br />I'm not totally convinced by the argument that anger at cyclists is "a rage against those who get away with things they long to do". I think that's part of it .. but the thing is - I find myself getting instinctively frustrated with cyclists when I'm driving sometimes - and I'm a cyclist! I understand how it feels to cycle, and that there's no point rushing to overtake because I'll end up sat at traffic lights in any case. I should be totally calm about it, but I'm not.<br /><br />I've also seen this in friends - for example, my girlfriend, a normally (well ...) reasonable and considerate person, who will become quite angry at slow-moving cyclists, at which point I have to remind her that they've every right to be on the road, feel vulnerable, no point rushing, etc, etc.<br /><br />I think pn's point about stress hits the nail on the head.<br /><br />The reason I'm unhappy to encounter a cyclist when I'm driving, is because it makes the experience of driving more of a hassle. Instead of just waltzing around keeping half an eye open for big cars lit up like Christmas trees, you suddenly have to; slow down (worrying about the car behind you getting frustrated at you and beeping their horn), carefully manoeuvre your big car about the fragile fleshy cyclist, worrying about them wobbling, etc... Consequently, you find yourself seeing a cyclist and thinking, "oh sh!t, a bloody cylist..." not because the cyclist is doing anything wrong, but because they mean driving is suddenly more of a chore.<br /><br />A bit like getting angry at seeing a caravan ahead when driving a country road.<br /><br />It only takes a little bit of bad habit, egging on from your peers, or just a lack of introspection, to go from thinking "ahh, bloody cyclist", to "bloody cyclists, they're a menace".<br /><br />this doesn't justify the thinking at all, of course, but I think it's a good explanation for how otherwise reasonable people can end up being so unreasonable towards cyclists.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3002171964909690430.post-67368696561021621292012-11-14T08:29:57.767-05:002012-11-14T08:29:57.767-05:00Anonymous,
Apologies - I thought I'd deleted ...Anonymous,<br /><br />Apologies - I thought I'd deleted that bit of spam. It's gone now.<br /><br />Invisible.Invisible Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15942359504874275065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3002171964909690430.post-65785807962385112162012-11-14T08:13:20.264-05:002012-11-14T08:13:20.264-05:00...and a spammer who provides a 'paper' wr......and a spammer who provides a 'paper' writing service yet displays an ignorance of good grammar.<br /><br />Huey.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3002171964909690430.post-72152907147401527042012-10-11T13:36:53.015-04:002012-10-11T13:36:53.015-04:00Doug,
Thank you for your kind words. It's tru...Doug,<br /><br />Thank you for your kind words. It's true that the woman was heading towards a traffic jam - a long traffic jam - that formed at that point every morning. If one were wanting to be fair - which I'm obviously not - the traffic jam wasn't visible at the point where she noised me up. But I easily filtered up the outside of the jam to where she was. I probably got where I was going long before she got where she was going.<br /><br />Since writing the post, I've moved from London to New York and I actually had a similar - but potentially more dangerous - experience on W54 Street two mornings ago. A car sat on my tail leaning on his horn as I negotiated a stretch where there was no room for passing. When I changed my line slightly, he squeezed past - to get to the red lights. When I caught up with him, I told him he could have killed me (which he could have). "I still can," he replied, in yet another indication that people don't see other road users as fully-fledged human beings.<br /><br />Invisible.Invisible Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15942359504874275065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3002171964909690430.post-18235510156809838472012-10-11T13:17:35.839-04:002012-10-11T13:17:35.839-04:00sadly you are 100% correct. one of the almost hidd...sadly you are 100% correct. one of the almost hidden truths in your piece was the fact that you then obviously caught up with her. 99.9% of motorists in a hurry are hurrying towards a set of lights, a traffic jam etc. they are desperately frustrated by all this and look for easy targets. <br />One of my retorts, now my commute is 90% rural is to point out that i never hear anyone moan about getting held up by a tractor - which are far more difficult for the car to pass. I think in a primitive way respect is given 'cos the thing could mince the car, whereas it is vice versa for the poor old cyclist.doug smallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01501826437846870739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3002171964909690430.post-24051039530777521582012-09-16T18:13:54.440-04:002012-09-16T18:13:54.440-04:00I've had people point, and kids regularly shou...I've had people point, and kids regularly shout 'cool bike mister', but no extra aggression. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3002171964909690430.post-50243919853112088542012-09-08T13:21:06.694-04:002012-09-08T13:21:06.694-04:00Not to worry, as anyone who is quick to get angry/...Not to worry, as anyone who is quick to get angry/stressed is more likely to end in an early grave, another downside to driving, think I'll stick to cycling.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03603403894406929768noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3002171964909690430.post-56049247168023885012012-05-11T09:22:30.479-04:002012-05-11T09:22:30.479-04:00Amoeba,
I have often wondered what it's like ...Amoeba,<br /><br />I have often wondered what it's like riding a recumbent in a city - and had the idea that it might attract even more of the nonsense than an ordinary bicycle. I've had eggs and a bottle thrown at me (the eggs hit; the bottle missed). I've also had a few menacing gangs of yoofs. One lot had some rather unfriendly dogs. People have some very creepy instincts,<br /><br />Invisible.Invisible Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15942359504874275065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3002171964909690430.post-37573398090515719772012-05-11T04:50:12.802-04:002012-05-11T04:50:12.802-04:00I had an experience with a group of youths who mad...I had an experience with a group of youths who made what I considered a very menacing move towards me.<br />I was approaching a tee junction via the 'stem', and about a dozen youths were walking along the 'top' of the tee and had started to cross ahead of me. They spotted me (presumably, my very bright headlight), changed direction, fanned-out, blocking the entire road and as a group began to approach me.<br />I was riding my recumbent which made the obvious manoeuvre of turning-round to escape quite impossible. The road was too narrow for a U-turn and they were too close for me to stop and turn round. So I dropped several gears and accelerated hard directly towards the biggest 'clump' of youths and luckily the bluff worked. They were surprised, scattered and I did not hang around to find out if they were just drunk or as I believe, out to cause trouble.<br /><br />I have found that the recumbent seems to bring-out the worst in some people, (I've had a telephone directory thrown at me in an unprovoked incident). Being different and eye-catching, it attracts attention and comment, some of it is most definitely not welcome.amoebahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15783694650121687459noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3002171964909690430.post-74331149052468475682012-05-11T04:32:48.096-04:002012-05-11T04:32:48.096-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.amoebahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15783694650121687459noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3002171964909690430.post-4016885381419534572012-05-11T04:19:13.415-04:002012-05-11T04:19:13.415-04:00IIRC, VED only applies to motor-vehicles. So there...IIRC, VED only applies to motor-vehicles. So there are two reasons why cyclist don't pay VED.amoebahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15783694650121687459noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3002171964909690430.post-79460997382426008412012-05-02T08:18:04.743-04:002012-05-02T08:18:04.743-04:00Excellent analysis of the irrational, out-of-propo...Excellent analysis of the irrational, out-of-proportion anger and hatred that cyclists face. It's interesting to note that it's actually poor road designs and widespread antagonism towards cyclists that encourage us to increase our 'otherness' (with cycle specific clothing, high-vis, body armour etc), thereby reinforcing our difference and progressively stripping us of what we as road users - be it cyclists or motorists - all have in common, our humanity. And once someone is not quite viewed as belonging to the same human race, it is of course perfectly acceptable to direct abuse at them or even to endanger their lives.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3002171964909690430.post-30731448114343598132012-04-25T13:32:07.126-04:002012-04-25T13:32:07.126-04:00Rhode,
Thank you so much for your comment - and y...Rhode,<br /><br />Thank you so much for your comment - and your kind words.<br /><br />You make some excellent points and there is an element of bullying, I think. But your explanation doesn't cover one phenomenon that really does sum up the strange, visceral hatred some people seem to feel for cyclists. I've occasionally had pedestrians rush out into the street to try to knock me off. They generally seem drunk, on something else or very, very immature. But it does happen - and I think people's strange anger at cyclists explains it. You may well have a better theory, however.<br /><br />Invisible.Invisible Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15942359504874275065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3002171964909690430.post-80792640105020308202012-04-25T11:47:57.206-04:002012-04-25T11:47:57.206-04:00Great blog that I have just discovered. Allow me t...Great blog that I have just discovered. Allow me to contribute. Actually my thought is that the serious psychology at play here is even more deep rooted than people think but is surprisingly simple.<br />Motorists (and of course I mean some - for the purposes of readability I will generalise for all groups) don't just hate cyclists, they hate everybody when they are in a car! They particularly hate other motorists who get in their way, slow them down, take their parking spot etc. The isolation and "freedom" of the motoring dream is directly at odds with the reality. <br /><br />How many people do you see picking their nose in their car; something they would not dream of doing at a restaurant table or in the busy street, even though they are just as Invisible visible through those glass windows!? <br /><br />However they cannot bully other motorists the same way without risk of damage and reprisal. Cyclists however are seen as an easy target. I think what is at play on our city streets is a primeval bullying and cyclists just happen to be literally softer targets. Add in the difference, freedom, joy and simplicity of getting around by bike and you have a legitimate target of agression. <br /><br />We have not evolved enough to be allowed to drive...Rhode Longhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14915552340092347797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3002171964909690430.post-45230030021914268562012-04-25T09:06:59.697-04:002012-04-25T09:06:59.697-04:00Richard C,
Thanks for your comment. A "some&...Richard C,<br /><br />Thanks for your comment. A "some" might have helped with the comment - but I'm still not sure what good it does anyone. I remarked below when Anonymous at 1pm made his original comment that it didn't seem unreasonable for a human-powered mode of transport that went faster than pedestrians but slower than cars (on the open road) to be treated in some circumstances more like pedestrians and in others more like motorists. There are, for example, quite a few mixed-used paths in the UK for pedestrians and cyclists - and motorways where cyclists are banned. Do we have to choose to be either pedestrians and constantly ploughing down the sidewalks or always motorists and risking it on the motorways?<br /><br />The comment seemed to me when it was made and remains now an example of the kind of excuse people invent to get angry with cyclists. Cyclists harm hardly any other road users. Anonymous at 1pm would, in my view, have been better off directing his anger at drivers speeding, driving while distracted or doing any of the myriad other things that actually harm people.<br /><br />Invisible.Invisible Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15942359504874275065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3002171964909690430.post-24873355298929598672012-04-25T08:58:03.226-04:002012-04-25T08:58:03.226-04:00I think you missed out the "some" here, ...I think you missed out the "some" here, and that it would more appropriately read "What bothers me about some cyclists is that ...." <br /><br />If you'd written that, you'll find that most people commenting on this site will agree with you; I certainly would.RichardChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10496043004354912291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3002171964909690430.post-70780806842446595172012-04-25T08:55:42.711-04:002012-04-25T08:55:42.711-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.RichardChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10496043004354912291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3002171964909690430.post-45807536577759118182012-04-25T05:51:26.240-04:002012-04-25T05:51:26.240-04:00Multi Grooves,
Thank you very much for your comme...Multi Grooves,<br /><br />Thank you very much for your comment - but I'm not sure any rationalisation explains this phenomenon. I hadn't in any way scared the woman I mention at the top of this story. She just didn't want to share the road with me. Nor does any rationalisation explain why some people want to overtake even cyclists going faster than they are ( as described at http://invisiblevisibleman.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/bikes-can-be-hard-to-overtake.html). I agree wholeheartedly that cyclists should follow the road rules, if only because they have so much to gain from an improved road culture (http://invisiblevisibleman.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/why-no-man-is-island-even-in-his-car.html). But we need to remember that, in Great Britain from 2008 to 2010, collisions with cyclists killed six pedestrians, 0.08 per cent of all road deaths. I also point out in another post (http://invisiblevisibleman.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/it-may-be-fun-but-is-cycling-part-of.html) that research shows motorists are responsible for around three-quarters of cyclist-motorist serious accidents. Other research has put the figure higher.<br />So it doesn't make much sense to rationalise hatred of cyclists - it comes deep from within many people's souls. I feel that particularly strongly because, every now and again, I get someone rushing out into the road to try to knock me off. That's utterly irrational - but fits perfectly into the explanation I've given, I think.<br /><br />All the best,<br /><br />Invisible.Invisible Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15942359504874275065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3002171964909690430.post-66468743658237601782012-04-24T20:27:42.766-04:002012-04-24T20:27:42.766-04:00There's a strong argument about the level of t...There's a strong argument about the level of training (or lack of) that enables people to get on a bike to ride on road. There are not that many psychopaths out to kill cyclists but when someone shows little to zero awareness to what is going on around them, fails to look back or signal and swerves into dangerous positions, I imagine it's a scary feeling being the one behind the wheel and nearly harming someone, which, quickly turns to anger. On top of that when you try and reason or question their actions all you get is an unreasonable volley of abuse. I know many experienced cyclists also have this view or their less skilled/experienced brethren. <br /> <br />Another issue is the view that red lights are optional. In my mind there is no safety issue, as most of us can cross a road safely irrespective of what colour the little man is, however, you get some cyclists that feel it is totally their right to keep going through the red whether pedestrians are crossing or not. This has led to the unacceptable situation where pedestrians that have the green man, hence the legal right of way are petrified to cross because they're half expecting someone to come flying through. I always raise the point that if you, as a cyclist had a green light on a junction and a motorised vehicle went through a red and found it's way into your path....Multi Grooveshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00490039874281029660noreply@blogger.com